Donald J Horowitz: My, my la-, my last question of you, and, and Professor Friedman will be asking a few more, is: You’ve been here a long time. You have certainly seen and heard a lot of evidence and testimony of some very difficult things. How, and you faced a lot of issues and you’re very committed to justice it seems to me. How has this experience changed you personally?
Oh, it has changed me significantly. I’ve come to see that humanity is the same for everybody. And one of the most difficult lessons about humanity is to be in a situation where you face your torturer and you are still willing to forgive.
We’ve had many situations in the trial chambers where people have broke down in front of their torturers. Some were speechless but they found, after the tears, they found the courage to say what they knew and at the end of the day they said, “Forgiveness is for God, it’s not for me.” That's changed me.
And I have seen situations where people who are so cruel to other human beings, they appear before the courts and are willing to shed a tear and to say, “I am sorry.”
Those are two aspects; forgiveness on the part of the victim and remorse, genuine remorse on the part of the killers, the perpetrators. It’s a very touching experience, very touching experience and it touches on my humanity and it touches on even the humanity of the judges.
I have come by situations where a judge has actually not been able to restrain himself or herself in the course of listening to testimony. At the end of the day we are all human beings and you ask yourself, “Why. Why? Why did it have to happen?” Because of the greed of the human being and the greed for material wor-, worth or greed for power.
It’s a very, it’s a, it's a touching experience. It has touched me personally.