Hassan Jallow speaks on...
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Lisa P. Nathan
Donald J Horowitz
Donald J Horowitz
Nell Carden Grey
45:00 - 49:35
Donald J Horowitz: I have two more questions only. You have had – I’m repeating – an extensive career before this and seen a lot of things. But these last years you’ve been here and you've been, you’ve had to work with very difficult sets of facts, the genocide itself, become familiar with the context as you have wanted your staff . . .
Staff to do . . .
DJH: . . . to become familiar and, and dealt with very difficult problems, some of which you’ve i-, many of which you’ve identified today.
DJH: How has this changed you? How has this affected you?
I, I don’t know. I, I think probably somebody else might know. But, but I’m, I mean working here on, on genocide as I, as I indicated earlier, has made me believe a lot in extra-legal measures, also the importance of extra-legal, extra-judicial measures which need to be taken to, to deal with injustices.
I believe very much in, in sort of trying to work at the community level to bring communities together, bring ethnic (_), groups together, to get people to, to, to respect basic values, basic values of, of love and friendship and good neighborliness, et cetera. I think those are so important. You know, I, I – and, and secondly, also, I’ve come here from Sierra Leone, the ad, the ad hoc tribunal in Sierra Leone which is different from this one.
And . . . I, I now believe more and more that the future lies in that kind of tribunal.
DJH: Give us a – what, what you mean a little bit by, by that.
I, I think . . .
DJH: We are running out of time but I, it’s important to . . .
I, I, I suspect that next time around we have a, a genocide it may be difficult for the international community to set up a tribunal such as this one or the ICTY, a huge international venture to deal with these cases.
I think it’s important that we recognize the need for the involvement of the national systems of the people, where these offenses occurred, their involvement in any process of justice and, and the Sierra Leone model provides that.
If possible, if it’s, it, you locate it in the country where the offenses took place, you, you engage the local population in the justice process, recruit them into it, you have local judges, local prosecutors working with international judges, international prosecutors.
I, I think the, the, the future may lie in that way. You, you need to engage the people in it and it, it will operate probably a lot more quickly also and it will create better understanding on the part of the local population of what you are trying to do.
One of our problems we have here is that we’re not in Rwanda. We are far from Rwanda and so we have to consciously find ways always of trying to get them to understand and be involved in what we are trying to do through, through outreach. We are a little bit too separate from them.
DJH: Well, we’re hopeful this project for which I am involved in, with which I am involved and which Lisa is involved, will be able to assist in that, in that possibility.
That’s good. You’re welcome, will be helpful.
DJH: And finally, the last question is the same question Lisa asked you, I don’t know, maybe 40 minutes ago.
DJH: Now that we’ve had further conversation, is there anything more that you would like to say to your grandchildren in the future or to the people who follow you, about what you as a person have learned or want to express and what you as a professional would like to express?
To, to, to my family and to ordinary people who are not, not to the, to the lawyers, I would just say, make sure you respect everybody. Every person needs to be respected, every person needs to have their rights recognized and respected.
You need to live together with peace with, with everybody. Everybody is your neighbor, as well. To the lawyers, I’d say the law is absolutely necessary but it’s not enough. It’s not the end of everything. You need to go beyond the law to, to, to find a solution to many of these, these, these crises as well.
DJH: Thank you very much.
Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you.